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Episode 101 -Examining your social media diet

We broke the century mark and to celebrate we're revisiting the topic of mental health and social media. This time I turn the focus on myself and two good friends as we take a critical look at our own usage and how we feel it impacts our own mood and behavior, for better or worse. To add a professional and scientific element to the show we compare our habits to published research on the correlation between social media use, irritability, depression, anxiety and mental health.

Transcript
Brad:

What is up, Brad fans? How you doing? How you living? Thank you for being here for the coveted episode 101. That's right, we broke the century mark.

I think we actually probably have more than 100 episodes already because I used to title things differently, but here we are, episode 101. Thank you for joining us.

And today we are covering a familiar topic, something we've talked about several times on the show before, and that is social media. So social media and its influence on our mood, our behavior.

But rather than speak to an expert in the sense of like an academic or a researcher or a practitioner, we're going to the streets. We're going for that street knowledge, that homegrown expertise.

And I've invited two of my oldest and dearest friends to have a critical look at our own social media use. So the idea for this came because in my journalistic practices I'm always scanning research for interesting papers to maybe write about.

And I found one that is a fairly basic, fairly normal type of study looking at social media use and mood and behaviors. So self reported surveys of your social media use and how you then feel. So irritability scores, depression scores, all these kind of things.

Then you do analysis, correlation, you know, is use correlated with increased anxiety, irritability, all those things. And I thought, yeah, that's interesting.

We see a lot of these studies, you've probably seen a lot of these studies in the news, online, that kind of thing, and we probably just take it for granted. Yes, social media use increases all of these negative attributes towards our mood.

But I thought, why not, why not center a discussion around using that paper to take a look at our own use, to actually analyze in a way, our own behaviors. So that's where this discussion came from.

So I invited my good friends Jared and Matt, they've both been on the show before and they're excellent conversationalists. Always a good time, always good laugh. Things do get a little silly.

So it's maybe not the most scientific analysis of our social media use, but it was fun to have this paper as a reference and say, you know, this is what the trends are saying, this is what the data's saying, do feel the same way.

And that opened up the discussion for a lot of different angles about social media use, our current usage, how we think it's affecting us, how we think it's affecting the broader society. And there was a surprising amount of positivity for social media if done correctly.

And we talk about that, how to use this correctly, is there a correct way in which we could use it. Is it inevitable that this is going to be with us forever? How is AI going to change these sorts of behaviors?

So a lot of fun angles to the conversation that we were able to have again by bouncing our ideas and our thoughts off of this actual research paper. Maybe it inspires you to take a look at your own social media use in the same way. If it does, let us know. Let me know in the comments.

We're on YouTube. You could watch this on YouTube. You could leave us a comment. Wherever you're getting your podcast and always wherever you're taking in this show.

Please rate, review, subscribe. Like, all of those things really, really helps us out. You can follow us on Instagram @2brad4u.

That's really the only social media that we're on for the show, but check the show notes for links to the paper that we use to. To ground our conversation and any other useful links that I find and for links to the website. So you can check that out.

If you feel inclined to help out the show monetarily. You can do that there. But importantly, just subscribe, like, follow, tell your friends all those great things. Thank you so much for being here.

And let's get into it. A discussion with my good friends Jared and Matt. A critical look at our own social media habits, our social media diet, as it were.

All right, boys, welcome to the pod. Jared, at this point, you're a. You're a mainstay. You might be one of the most visited people to the pod, so indeed, thanks for coming back.

No prop, Matt. You only your second appearance, I believe, which is a little disappointing, but I kind of understand you're a bit of a nervous Nelly on stage. No.

Matt:

Are you disappointed that I'm here, or are you disappointed that I haven't been here more often?

Brad:

Disappointed that you haven't been here more often.

Matt:

Well, you gotta. You gotta invite me, Brad.

Brad:

Okay, we'll save this for another day, but I'm assuming it's because you're a bit of a nervous Nelly, even though you're.

Jared:

He lacks confidence. True.

Brad:

He lacks confidence. Yeah.

Jared:

People always say that about Matt. Not enough confidence.

Matt:

When I was a kid, my mom would never hang my art on the fridge, and I think that stuck with me.

Brad:

That's a big part of it. It's a big part of it, yeah. All right, boys. I assembled the team here because you guys, like me, are online.

I think we share some social media habits, and we're going to talk about social media habits today. So get ready, everyone's. Going to show their for you page. Nope, nope, we're not doing that. Everyone goes silent. No, we're not doing that.

Jared:

I don't want to bring it up, but. Well, there's something going on with for you pages right now since the right wing shift.

And it's essentially, you know, there's a lot of talk out there that everyone's. For you pages for men are mostly goon content. For gooning. You know, there's been a big shift.

Brad:

It's been a big shift recently. It's a goon that's just, that's just what it's always been.

Jared:

Apparently it's at higher rates now. And I don't want to get too derailed. Start talking about the goonocide. I don't know if you guys know about that, but.

Brad:

I have not. But Jared, this is why I bring you on, because you're tapped into Internet sources that I am not tapped into. And this is what I thought too.

So we're all online, we're all using social media, and I think our common app is Instagram. That's the one that the three of us communicate on. We're sending memes, all that stuff. Non goon stuff, but brain rot, you know?

Jared:

Yes.

Brad:

You know, the meme culture, the meme jokes. But Jared, I think you're the only one of us that's on Tik Tok. Matt, you're not on Tik Tok.

Matt:

No, never. Never on Tik Tok.

Brad:

Yeah. So Jared, you're, you're, you're on Tik Tok. You got that perspective, right?

Jared:

Indeed.

Brad:

Matt, what other social do you use? And I include Reddit and YouTube as social media. YouTube, YouTube. Do you, you don't do Reddit?

Matt:

No, I don't understand it.

Brad:

Yeah, see, I'm kind of the same and I feel. Don't you understand about it? I don't know how to use it. I don't know how to use it. Like, I don't know how to maximize the use of it.

I like, know people get. Yeah, yeah, I get. I like it too. There's stuff I find on it, but I just. It's not as seamless. Right? Like, it's not. Well, more reading, I guess.

Jared:

Like, it's, it's more geared towards, like, articles, I suppose.

Matt:

You know, I like when people message stuff for me on Reddit. When Jared sends me Reddit stuff, I enjoy that, but I can't find it myself.

Brad:

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't know how to find things on Reddit.

Like I've, I, you know, started and I followed some groups or whatever you call it, I don't know, Reddits or whatever, subreddits. And yeah, it was just really hard to find content. I just didn't know. But it felt more like a message board. Like old school.

Jared:

Yeah.

Brad:

You know, message board type. And I think that's, you know. But I would conclude Reddit in social media for sure. But. So Instagram's the one we share. I probably.

You guys don't do Twitter or X?

Jared:

No.

Brad:

Yeah. You don't X. I'm on X, but I haven't X'd in a while and since the hail.

Jared:

Since the Hail Hitler or.

Brad:

Yeah, no, it was before then. It was before then, but that didn't help. Didn't help. I was like, maybe I should just delete this app altogether. But so I did do the shift to.

Because in the, in the circles that I travel, in the academic science circles, there was a big exodus like four months ago from, From X to Blue Sky. Yeah, yeah. So I, I joined Blue sky and I'm on there. But I gotta say, it's kind of too nice.

Jared:

You can't watch anyone get murdered on Blue Sky. You know, there's none of that.

Brad:

And it's, it's all very. So far. It's all very. Yeah. Like supportive and all very much like, yeah, X. Good thing we're all over here, isn't it? Forget that.

And so it's kind of like, I don't know, it just feels a little one sided. A little one sided. And I mean, X is one sided as well in the other way, but X is also the Wild west.

So I mean, there's something fascinating about that. But. Okay, so those are the major ones and I think that's kind of broadly the major ones. Would you consider, you guys consider YouTube social media?

Matt:

No.

Jared:

No, I don't think so.

Matt:

I'm not doing anything social and I'm looking at metal detecting videos of old farmsteads for three hours at a time.

Jared:

Like. Exactly.

Matt:

That's just me, baby. That's just me by myself.

Brad:

Yeah, but when you're just scrolling Instagram, you're. It's just you.

Jared:

But it's long form.

Brad:

I think it's like, yeah, it's still social media.

Jared:

It's long form and there's not a powerful algorithm behind it feeding you, like, I wish a lot of time YouTube compared to like TikTok or something.

Brad:

Powerful algorithm behind that.

Jared:

It's showing me stuff all the time. It's like I don't want like, I don't know, like stuff maybe I'm not into as much. Like, I watched one gun video and it was like, I disagree 100%.

Matt:

My feed is every single video. I could just. I could park myself in front of my computer for hours. You know how much metal detecting videos I can watch on there?

There's like thousands and thousands of hours.

Brad:

Yeah, I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that you could watch metal detecting videos for thousands of hours.

I also don't doubt that there's another rube out there making that content for you.

Matt:

Thousands of them.

Brad:

Thousands of them.

Matt:

Don't get me started on mudlarking. Mudlarking is if you, if you haven't gone down that rabbit hole. My God, is that part of the Dunisphere?

No, that's where they, it's in the, they do most of the. In the. On the Thames river when it was a tidal river. When it goes down, you find all these.

Jared:

I have seen mud larking. Yeah, it's kind of fun.

Matt:

You find all these old trinkets in the mud. Yeah, it's pretty neat.

Jared:

An earring from a prostitute that died in like the 16th century.

Matt:

Most mostly clay pipes and hairpins from.

Jared:

The prostitutes that were chucked into the Thames, most likely.

Brad:

I think you're kidding yourself if you think that YouTube doesn't have a powerful algorithm behind it. Like, are you kidding me? That's what all these things do. And that's why I consider it social media is because it's decentralized.

It's people posting, it's that, you know, in the spirit of social media, let's say it's anyone can post, anyone can watch, anyone can comment. To me, it's social media. I know that YouTube has a powerful algorithm because I can see it trying to red pill me all the time.

YouTube is always trying to red pill me.

Jared:

I think all social media will try to red pill you at some point.

Brad:

It knows our demographic, you know, 30, 38, 839 year old white guy from North America. From North America, Europe. It's gonna try and it's gonna try and goon you and it's gonna try and red pill you.

But it is like I see it on YouTube because I mean, and I mean like, I think all of us too, you know, we probably have the same sort of, let's say political media diet, political persuasion, you know, maybe in the center, maybe a little right, maybe a little left, but pretty firmly in the center. So I'm watching you Know, the things that I've subscribed to are like, the Young Turks and, like, David Pacman and.

Yeah, I don't know if you know that one, but, like, you know, these kind of things that are kind of sensible. Sam Harris, you know, it's like all this, like, let's be sensible. And then every once in a while, there's always this video and, like, a.

Jared:

Tim Pool video being like, Tim Pool DEI is ruining whatever. It's like, thanks.

Brad:

You know what? The one that wearing. I also have a lot of sports, so it'll always be something about the WNBA and equal pay. And it's like, you see?

So it's like, oh, I'm gonna do sports. Whatever it comes on and stuff. And you're watching it, and then all of a sudden it's just like, okay, you're getting a little too.

A little too angry about the wnba. And then you, like, start seeing the other content that's there, and it's like, ah, yeah, this is. This is the red pill. This is the.

You know, this is the thing. But this. The thing that.

Well, one of the things that prompted me to bring this up, to bring this episode together, was a study that I found, you know, this is a science podcast, so let's make it scientific.

Where it was linking irritability mainly to social media use, or that was the question they were looking at, because I guess previous studies, the data is fairly strong at this point. Social media use and depression, like, symptoms pretty correlated off the bat. I think that's something that we could all kind of agree with.

No, Totally.

Matt:

No.

Jared:

Whether it's depression or, like, anxiety, not for me.

Matt:

It's a giggle machine. For me, it just brings me nothing but pure joy.

Jared:

I consume a lot of news, I think, and I find that I'm like.

Matt:

Instagram, for me is just jokes, jokes, jokes, jokes, jokes, jokes.

Brad:

Okay.

And I could say, I would agree that, like, on a personal level, I don't think that it's influenced me in a negative way, but I think that we'd be maybe again, kidding ourselves if we think that there isn't some kind of detrimental impact to our social media use. But.

Jared:

But I think, like, you know, it depends on, like, your level of, like, media literacy.

Brad:

Mm.

Jared:

And, like, how much consuming, like, the same amount of, like, content can, like, fuck you up, you know, as it does just, like, keep feeding you the exact same thing you interact with.

And then you just, you know, dear idiot, you lock yourself in some sort of echo chamber where, like, you're always right and you're just reconfirming everything you believe.

Brad:

There's that. There's that for sure. And I think that, like, I think that the three of us would probably try and be aware of that.

s and early:

Like advertising, you know, the ads are. They're getting you, they're getting you. And I always thought myself, like, I'm probably immune to advertising. Like, it's not gonna get me.

I'm not gonna fall for that. But I mean, the science and the data is kind of there that. It's like we're all kind of monkey brains and you can. At some level it affects you, right?

Like it gets you. At some level.

Matt:

I wanted to.

Brad:

And that's kind of what I. You wanted to get.

Matt:

I've never had custom tailored advertisements for the coolest things that I didn't even know I needed. It's awesome. Most things I get now are awesome and they're off the Internet and that's because somebody fed me an ad. I'll drink it up. It's great.

This is a fantastic time to be alive. There's all sorts of neat stuff out there.

Brad:

Fair enough, man. And I get that, and I think that's true.

But would you say broadly, though, Like, I guess what I was saying when I said we could all agree on that, it was, I was thinking this broader, broader societal impact, let's say. Or do you think that overall, would you agree overall that like, social media use contributing to anxiety, depression, that kind of thing?

Like, that's not far fetched.

Matt:

No, I think for lots of people it's a big problem. But I think if you're.

For me, if you use it correctly, it's just a little, It's a fun little thing that, you know, with all sorts of good things to find there. It's just a magical place. But for lots of people, I think it could be pretty dark. My. My Instagram feed had.

Was giving me stuff I didn't like and it was kind of driving me nuts. So I found that you could just say not interested. And I went through my entire feed and just click not interested on it.

And now I do that every few months. And it.

Brad:

You purge.

Jared:

You can also reset your entire algorithm on Instagram, which I did recently.

Matt:

Yeah, I don't know. It keeps it fresh, keeps it.

Jared:

Because it was Just showing me, like, a bunch of stuff. Like, I don't want this.

Matt:

Yeah. My morbid curiosity.

I clicked on somebody, you know, getting blown up or run over or something like that, and then the dark lords of the algorithm just gave me more. And then all of a sudden, I was seeing, you know, brutal violence every day. That's no good, I think.

Jared:

Well, like, from my experience, like, I can, Like.

Yeah, I think it does, like, add to, like, my anxiety at some extent, because, like, I just consume, like I said, a lot of news, like, specifically on TikTok, and I'm. What. You know, with whatever. When it's like, the tariff stuff, like, all the shit going on in, you know, the whole.

The global state of everything is, like, a lot to take in. You know, if you're, like, plugged into it and just getting bombarded with people's, you know, content.

Matt:

Mm.

Jared:

And there's nothing you can really do. It's not like. It's not even. You know, I'm watching stuff in the States. It's like, I don't even fucking live there. And I'm, like, getting anxiety.

Secondhand anxiety about shit.

Brad:

Yeah. You know, I think that's definitely a problem for me.

Jared:

And then I'm reading comments of just like, idiot. Like, that's. I think that adds to my anxiety of being like, holy fuck. People are this, like, dull.

Brad:

But all those comments are probably boss.

Jared:

I mean, that's the other thing, too. They are mostly bots.

Matt:

I also feel.

Brad:

I do try to avoid comments, though, especially on political.

Jared:

I need to know. I need to know. I have to. I have to know what people think of this fucking thing.

Brad:

Like, I have to know if I do do it. And I mean, this is where. I mean, you're talking. TikTok, this is Twitter. X is like, the worst. Because it's like, that's.

You know, it's just now, especially now, and I have noticed a shift in it, like. And I've definitely, like, tuned out of it more.

But, yeah, if I do look at it, it's like I look at the first three, four, five, six, you know, something like that, and then it's like, I. I can't help but think, you know, these are just bots, you know? But I feel like, though, like, us even just, like, what you're describing.

What we're describing here is I don't think that's the. I don't know, maybe this is arrogant to say, but I don't know if it's the average person. I don't think if they're that can like disciplined on it.

I mean, and not that, like, I don't know, each of us has our own vices. I don't think we're all, you know, sue is super disciplined. You know, we're not waking up at 6am and doing 100 push ups.

Jared:

But speak for yourself, Brad. Yeah, Brad, I do a thousand push.

Brad:

Ups, three sets and then the cold tub. Yeah, because I saw it on. Yeah, I saw it on Tick Tock.

Jared:

And then I sun my testicles.

Brad:

Yeah, right. No, not your perineum.

Jared:

Well, both. Yeah, I, I get them both at the same time. As I'm a busy man, I'm out there hustling and creating online courses.

Brad:

I just developed a new undergarment that has sunlight built into the, into the crotch of the underground.

Jared:

I'm just wearing crotchless panties actually, is.

Brad:

What I'm constantly sunning. I'm constantly sunning. So, you know, I'm on the next level, bro. You check your vibrations.

Jared:

My T levels are out of this world.

Matt:

You got to keep it warm, you got to keep it dry. That's what I always say.

Brad:

More great practical. More great practical. And by it you mean from Matt. Exactly.

Matt:

Keep it warm, keep it dry.

Brad:

Exactly. So the thing is, in this study, the things that they looked at was the different apps. Twitter, TikTok, Instagram and Facebook.

I believe that's where it was cut at. And so they looked at people, obviously. Demographics, I think it was like, no. Yeah. So it's close to 40,000 people online survey, all self reported.

So there's those caveats with it. But close to 40,000 people. 42,000 people. And then of course, ask the usage. So the usage first off is do you use it once a day?

Multiple times a day, once a week, that kind of thing. So I think we're all in the multiple times a day category.

Jared:

Yeah.

Brad:

Did you find your usage? What's your usage? My usage is, I think I average. So my phone is counting social as email and like all this other stuff.

And it's about 2 hours and 40 minutes a day. But if I look just at Instagram, which I would say is like for sure the most used app. I think it's like an hour and a half a day I got.

Jared:

Which is rookie numbers. You got to bump those up.

Matt:

I got, I got 2 hours and.

Brad:

31 minutes on Instagram or just social.

Jared:

Instagram, but my 27 minutes on Instagram.

Brad:

But today or average. I'm talking average.

Jared:

Average. 27.

Matt:

Oh, yeah.

Brad:

Okay, let's hear Tick tock.

Jared:

It's not giving my average, but it says two and a half hours on Saturday, you know?

Brad:

Yeah. So there you go. Okay.

Jared:

An hour on Friday. Nothing. Wednesday, Thursday, Because I delete it. I try to delete it during the week because I find it, like, so addicting.

Brad:

So you actually delete the app?

Jared:

Yeah. And then it's like. It's a little weekend tree because it's like, I find. I'm just like, what am I doing? It's like, burnt my brain out.

My brain feels exhausted from, like, looking at shit. And I'm like, I gotta delete this thing, you know?

Brad:

But, yeah, you go back to the well, you keep dipping back in.

Jared:

Yeah. Because then I feel like my brain when I see it, my brain's like, oh, yeah.

Matt:

Oh, yeah. Get that.

Jared:

It fires up, like, you know, I think you do get a dopamine mean hit from it.

Brad:

You absolutely get it right from having.

Jared:

A nice scroll hung over on the couch on a Sunday or Saturday.

Brad:

So do you. Do you.

Jared:

Or a Monday? If it's a long weekend, I guess.

Brad:

If it's a long weekend, of course. But so then do you think about it? Like, it's like, ooh, I got some time. Like, yeah. Now, like, oh, I'm gonna squirrel away. Oh, I got some time.

I'm gonna.

Jared:

Yeah. Some nice demon time on Tik Tok. Guilt free.

Brad:

Okay.

Jared:

Why is my frontal lobe with, you know, content.

Matt:

Sit on the toilet till your feet go numb.

Jared:

Yeah, exactly.

Brad:

That's what I was gonna say. That's. The next thing is like, that's my. Like, I look at. It's like an hour and a half. That's a lot, you know, for a day, I feel like.

And it's a bit shocking to see that number, but I'm not overly surprised. I'm like, okay, what's the average.

Jared:

Did you say that for people?

Brad:

Oh, I don't know. They didn't have. In the study I was looking at. Didn't have an average time. It was just. Those were the questions. Those are the categories.

Was like, never or once a day. Multiple times a day. And then, like, most of the day. So it was like a.

And I'm sure they gave the survey participants more direction on what most of the day meant, but those were the broad categories. That and.

Jared:

Sorry if I missed that. I was on my phone, kind of zoned out.

Brad:

Yeah, I was looking at my phone.

Jared:

While you were talking.

Brad:

It's the weekend.

Jared:

Yeah, it is the weekend after. On average, people spend 95 minutes a day on TikTok.

Brad:

Yeah. Okay, so that's an hour and a half.

Matt:

But if they're correlating this to depression or mental health issues, like there's every single other factor in the world is probably causing people to be more distressed and unhappy with their situation.

Brad:

Sure. So the things that they looked at in this was so just that use and correlated to irritability.

And then I think some other depression like symptoms or irritability. Irritability is known to be, you know, something that can lead to depression.

Jared:

I could see like the depression, the depression side come from people like if you're like following a lot of influencer content.

Brad:

Yeah. So they didn't get into that level of content. They didn't break it down into that level.

But they did look at how politically, how politically engaged you are and what your, what your. Yeah. Level of political engagement. And I think that it was like, if you. I'll try and find it here. I have it pulled up.

But I believe when I read through it it was like political engagement didn't really shift the needle that much. And for sure political affiliation. And again it was American. So it's like Republican or Democrat didn't shift the needle.

But it was like if you're actually, I think it was like if you watch, I'll try and find it.

But if you watched, if you followed the news even just a little bit, it actually like decreased the, the, the correlation was decreased in terms of social media use and irritability. We had three factors there. So it was, it was a bit convoluted.

But the things that, other than that political affiliation, the other thing that was interesting that they looked at was posting or not. So whether, if you post does it increase irritability or decrease?

And that was kind of interesting because it was like for Twitter, if you posted it increased your chances of. Or your, the likelihood that you're irritable or the correlation, the strength of the correlation between that and irritability.

But if you posted on Instagram and Facebook, maybe also TikTok, maybe it was a slight decrease.

Jared:

Interesting.

Brad:

Yeah. And so to me that kind of made sense because it was like less.

Jared:

People screaming at you.

Brad:

Exactly.

And more of like what Matt's talking about is, you know, all the other ding dongs that are looking at, you know, metal detecting and it's like, oh, I found a nice community and yeah. You know, and you get that more on Tick tock Instagram rather than Twitter also like just toxic screaming at each other.

Jared:

Yeah.

Like I, I don't post anything, but I could see like if you're posting on Instagram, like, you're probably like, people who are seeing it are going to be your friends.

Brad:

For a lot of people. I think so.

Jared:

I think for like most people, Right.

Unless you've got like a following over probably like a thousand followers or something, you're not going to post a picture of your dog and they're like, hey, you know, you're not going to get a thousand people calling you gay because, you know, you have a small dog or whatever it is. Yeah. Because you own a doodle, you know.

Brad:

No, you'll just get your close circle of friends.

Jared:

Yeah.

Brad:

On the WhatsApp chat being like, what was that? Yeah, but no, no, for sure. Yeah. And that, so that, that to me made sense. Right.

And then it was like, in terms of use, it was like, I think there was a pretty clear, like, the more you use, the more irritable you'll be sure. Which again, makes sense. Are there any positive effects in this study?

Like I said, no, just that the, just that the, the correlation of posting and, and, and irritability wasn't as strong or it was like decreased. I want to find the, the. Yeah. So the questions that they kind of asked was like, how, how closely do you follow the news, politics, current affairs?

So it could be like not closely at all, not very close, somewhat close, very closely, that kind of thing. And so it was like that I would have thought would have had more of an effect, but it didn't seem like it had much of an effect.

And what was the irritability questions? So here we go. Please indicate how often you felt or behaved in the following ways. In the last two weeks, including today, I have been grumpy.

Yeah, that's. That sigh indicated.

Jared:

Maybe a little burnt out. Like I said, too much wild, you know, news going on globally.

Brad:

It's been like I have been feeling like I might snap. No, that seems pretty, that seems pretty extreme. Other people have been getting on my nerves.

Jared:

No, no.

Brad:

Okay. Things have been bothering me more than they normally do. I have been feeling irritable. No, this is self reported and also in public.

So I don't know, maybe you guys are masking a little bit, but those are the kind of questions. Those are the kind of questions. And then there was actually a depression scale that they did, which I don't have access to the actual question.

Jared:

I'd say maybe more irritable because once a week I'll just like go on like a tirade at Anna about things.

Brad:

About the world, about, about a doom.

Jared:

And gloom yeah, doom and gloom tirade.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jared:

Like, here's all the things that are right now.

Brad:

Okay, well then here's. Here's a question then. Do you think that that comes mostly from social media or from podcasts? And would you consider podcast social media?

Matt:

I guess they would be. I consume a lot of podcasts. My, my work allows me to have my headphones on the entire time, so I get a lot of podcasts down.

Jared:

It's nice your boss lets you do that.

Matt:

Yeah, it's really nice of them.

Jared:

Misha's a nice boss.

Brad:

Misha is a really cool guy.

Matt:

Yeah. Yeah.

Brad:

But would you consider it social media? I don't know.

Jared:

I don't think. Because you don't. Because, no, I don't think. Because you don't engage with it the same way you engage with other stuff. Right. But it's a one sided.

Matt:

It does kind of.

Brad:

It's close to YouTube though. Yeah, it's close to YouTube component.

Jared:

But I just comment, I listen to like, I have, I go and find podcasts I want. I don't think I've ever like clicked on a suggested podcast.

Brad:

That's true. Yeah.

Jared:

Right. Like the only way I find new podcasts or something, like I'll have like a guest will be on a podcast. I'm like, oh, that's.

They sound interesting or whatever, they're funny. And then I'll go search them out.

Brad:

Right.

Jared:

So that's like an or. Right? Like you're finding your other stuff, like organically.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fair. I mean, Spotify, I guess, recommends you stuff, but I don't think.

Jared:

I don't ever. Yeah, they recommend me music and I don't know what they do for podcasts.

Matt:

Spotify recommendations, really?

Jared:

I hate it. Yeah, it just, it just.

Brad:

Yeah, but Jared, that's because your taste is poo.

Jared:

Because I'll like, I'll be like, taste.

Brad:

In music is pure.

Jared:

My issue is like, I'll be like, oh, I like this artist and it's a woman. And they'd be like, well, here's a bunch of other female art. It's like, no, that's not what I like.

Brad:

I think with Spotify though, you got to train your feed.

Jared:

Yeah.

Matt:

Like songs.

Brad:

se I have like a bank of like:

And the recommendations, like the Discover Weekly, that kind of thing is pretty good.

Matt:

Yeah, mine's amazing.

Brad:

If I listen to it, I get at least two or three Songs, I'm like, yeah, that's going on the list.

Matt:

Spotify has been the coolest thing I've found in this new technological age that I've gotten the most out of the recommendations. I find two. Two new artists probably a week that I really dig. And that's amazing.

Before that, I would go years before finding something like, how is your.

Brad:

And I would. I would. Absolutely. Wow. Actually, let me walk that back. I don't know, but absolutely.

But on my phone, when I look at the stats, it was like, Spotify counts as social media. I kind of see it, but yeah, I don't. From an algorithm point of view, it's. It's feeding. It's the same kind of. Yeah. Technology.

But, yeah, it's not as social in terms of, like, commenting and things. And that's why I would.

Jared:

Music's not social media. Right? Like, it's.

Brad:

Exactly. But I would put YouTube in a separate category from podcasts simply because of the commenting.

Matt:

Sure.

Brad:

Like, there's like, that's that. That's that distinction. But what was I gonna say? Yeah, no, the Spotify thing is. Is amazing. But, Matt, I was gonna ask this, though.

Your music listening behavior. Do you listen to as many albums or is it all just songs? Because I've Just songs. Yeah, I definitely stopped listening to albums.

Matt:

If I find a new. If I find a song that I've. From an artist I haven't heard before and I really like it, I probably will go check out their album.

Jared:

Yeah, like. Yeah, like. Like Kendrick's album, like, came out. I was like, oh, I'll listen to that whole thing front to back in one sitting.

Matt:

The Dust Collector.

Brad:

Look at this guy trying to sound like he knows music. And look at you trying to plug your. Your band.

Jared:

Yeah.

Matt:

Dust Collectors are super hot right now.

Brad:

They super hot right now. I did listen to your album. I will admit that. I. That's an album that I listen to.

Matt:

I know. We have our metrics and we can see that. Germany had one stream.

Brad:

It was me, baby.

Jared:

It was me.

Brad:

Actually, no, it couldn't have been me. I was not in Germany.

Matt:

Oh, yeah, same thing.

Brad:

One stream.

Matt:

One stream out of both.

Brad:

Somewhere over there, surprisingly, Africa has got.

Matt:

A lot of streams. We get some strange places.

Brad:

Yeah.

Matt:

Super weird.

Brad:

North Korea. What? North Korea doesn't even have the Internet.

Matt:

I'm just kidding. It was North Korea.

Brad:

This podcast gets a lot of listens out of China and India that I wasn't expecting.

Matt:

That's interesting.

Brad:

Yeah.

Matt:

Yeah.

Brad:

Because I've talked a lot of about China and Teresa's lab group, my wife's lab group, my beautiful wife Teresa, her lab group is collaborating with China and they, they go there sometimes. And so the discussion came up once where it was like, oh, well, what if we got a chance to go to China? I was like, I can't go to China.

I've talked way too much for yourself on the Internet. They're gonna stop me at the border.

Jared:

Right away and just CCP on top, baby. Yeah, they got you ji Jinping for 100 years. Let's go.

Brad:

The Winnie the Pooh. Yeah. No, no. But it's interesting though because I think getting back to Spotify thing, it's like it I.

That just that fact of like I'm now into songs and not albums, I think says something again about this whole like algorithm derived thing and that it's like you're getting.

Jared:

Bites. Small form content versus the entire picture of content.

Brad:

Exactly. That's exactly the words that I was looking for because. And I think that something like I've.

Jared:

Watched whole like portions of shows on TikTok in five minute clips because people will just put. And I'll be like, I'll watch part of a movie and then be like, oh, I'll watch the next part. And then I'm like, what am I doing?

I should just go download this goddamn movie. Like, what am I, you know, or if it's a movie. Yeah, it's stupid.

Matt:

Well, everybody's attention spans have gotten a lot shorter and everything's kind of changed. So it's Spotify's. Yeah, you're listening to single songs. But.

But I've also noticed like we put out a couple albums and initially that was the thing artists did for the longest time. You get enough songs and then you make a full length album and you release it.

And we were chatting with our label and they're like, that's just not the way of the world anymore. Basically now it's all about singles, Drip feed singles, drip feed singles. Because nobody's gonna listen to a full length album.

So you're just actually the guy that was talking to me about it said you're basically wasting tracks because people are going to listen to one song or two songs and all the other songs you put on the album are just going to get no plays whatsoever.

Whereas if you release the same amount of songs in, in Drips and Drops, like Jared was saying, they get way more listens and you can actually get people to actually listen to the entirety of the album. But it just takes a hell of a lot Longer.

Brad:

Right. But I, I guess. And that makes sense. Sure. Like that's the marketplace that. That exists now.

But I guess what I'm saying though is that like you're missing something from. And this, you know, maybe sounds superficial or like the old, the old music fan, you know, yelling at clouds or whatever, but it's like making.

Sitting down to make an album of songs that has like a Through a through line and like continuity and stuff like that. That's different than just putting out songs.

There's a difference in the information that's being put out there and the intention of the information that's being put out there. And I feel like you're losing something.

Jared:

And if you make concept albums.

Brad:

Yeah, but now that's not possible. Or now it's like, it's not that it's not listening to comfortably now.

Jared:

Singles only would be like a big hit. Or the missing out.

Brad:

Exactly.

Matt:

You still do the exact same thing. You do the exact same thing.

You can still have a through line of your album, but you just release everything in singles all the way until you've released the full length album. And then you release the full length album. You do them in order. Yeah. And you can still have a through.

Brad:

Line through the whole thing.

Matt:

That's what we're.

Brad:

Yeah. I mean, I guess that like. Yeah. And I get what you're. You're. I know what you're saying as someone in a band who's trying to get views on your.

On your stuff.

Matt:

Check out the Dust collectors.

Brad:

Dust collectors music.com we're going to edit that.

Jared:

Yeah.

Brad:

Because no free podcast this. But yeah, this podcast is, you know, totally independent on all your streaming services. The only way you could get.

The only way you can plug something on this podcast is to plug paying for this podcast. Give me money. But it's.

You see what I'm saying though, like in this larger philosophical point about like it changes the nature of the information, you know, or the information distribution.

And I think that there, there is something to getting information in that in small bites like that rather than taking time to get a whole piece of context or a whole larger, you know. Yeah. Context in which that bit of information sits in.

Jared:

And it's like, I think it's like the same way like if you are, like if you're on Reddit, like I rarely, I mean a lot of times I just look at headlines as we all do of an article and then I'll go in the comments and I'm like, somebody will just like pluck out the important Parts. And I'll read those and I'll digest some comments.

You know, not as, you know, informatively, you know, fulfilling as reading an entire article or something.

Brad:

It makes sense. Here, let me. I have this. I happen to have this handy and it's a quote from Carl Sagan. You all know Carl Sagan?

Matt:

Yes, sir.

Jared:

Yeah, he's the drummer for acdc, correct?

Brad:

Yeah. Also wrote several books about science and physics. But. Okay, I'll read the larger quote. But it's the, it's the bat is a. I mean all.

It's all pertinent to the discussion, but I think the last part of it, it is the most. But I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time. When the United States is a service and information economy.

When nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries. When awesome technological powers are in the hands of very few and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues.

When the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority. When clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties are in decline.

Unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide almost without noticing back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media.

The 30 second sound bites now down to 10 seconds or less. Lowest common denominator programming. Credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.

Matt:

Yay.

Brad:

Ironically, prescient.

Jared:

Ironically. I saw some guy on TikTok go over that entire quote. There you go. Like the other week. So that's.

Brad:

This came up in a group chat that I was. That I'm in with.

Jared:

Yeah, he's right. He's bang on. But what year did I. What year did he write that?

Brad:

I think it was like 90. It was in the 90s, I believe.

Jared:

That's crazy.

Brad:

I have the book that, that it's from. I can't remember which one it is called, but. Yeah, yeah, is. I think it was in the 90s. Yeah.

Jared:

And he was 15 years before social media even became.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah.

Jared:

Even even was birthed. Really.

Brad:

The other book that I think is interesting on this one that I haven't completely. I haven't finished, but I keep in a mat. I've been telling you about this for probably a year and I still haven't.

I still haven't finished the book is Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman, I think it is. But it's like it again, it talks about information and it riffs on the very beginning.

The, the, the other quote from I think is Marshall McLuhan or something. But it's like the message, the medium is the message and how. It's like it really depends on the medium in terms of what information you can get.

And this is, I think, a really fascinating idea. And another book that I just started and haven't finished yet. Yuval. Noah Harari. You know that guy?

Matt:

Yep.

Brad:

Wrote Sapiens and, and the other ones.

Jared:

Got his dreams in steel. No, not the same guy. Different guy, anyways.

Brad:

Different guy. Totally different guy. But nice try though. Trying to sound smart like you read books.

Jared:

I really, I really thought those are the same two options.

Brad:

Anyway, his latest book is called Nexus and it's about information networks and like how information has like shaped, you know, human society and blah, blah, all this. But he has a really interesting idea that I want to put out to you guys. I'm sure you'll have thoughts on.

I, I'm assuming you'll agree is he's got, I can't remember exactly how you put it. It was like there's this naive view of information.

And one of the things about the naive view of information is that like, good information will just like bubble to the surface, you know, so like what these guys, like Rogan and Musk and stuff are like, oh, if we just, you know, anyone can say everything online, the good ideas, the free market of ideas, like everything, the good ones will just like naturally come to the surface.

And Yuval is like, it doesn't work that way because good ideas and good information requires effort, you know, fact checking, doing the research, like doing the info like that takes time and takes effort. And so therefore it is more costly. Good information is more costly.

So just opening up the, the fire hose of like, here's all the information and you know, and assuming that there's something that takes time and effort to curate and, and come up is just going to somehow come to the top is ridiculous.

Matt:

Yeah, and I think, I think we're kind of in the, we're in the Wild west phase of these new algorithms that are gaming our, our minds. And I think. Well, I'm least hopeful for, well, I'm.

Brad:

Not hopeful for it.

Matt:

I think it's inevitable. There's going to be a lot of damage that's done and we're going to see it in, in the younger generations as they. And we're going to see.

We're going to start to see differences, that we can draw straight lines to these types of technologies. And I think there's going to be a big waking up phase of, of us realizing how these things are, are, are affecting us.

And my hope is that in the future we will have like. Well, my personal dream is I want an AI assistant. You see that movie her with Yaqueen Phoenix? You ever see that one where he's got.

Brad:

I'm, I'm aware of it.

Matt:

It's basically a Scarlett Johansson.

Brad:

You want to fall in love with your phone.

Matt:

No, I want, I want the voice.

Jared:

I want to fall in love with your vape. He wants an A, he can.

Matt:

I want the voice. I want the voice to be Silvio from Sopranos. And he calls me boss and he's always scheming.

Jared:

You want to consigly an AI consigliere? You can do that?

Matt:

Yeah, totally.

Jared:

Yeah, you can do that.

Matt:

But I want easy. I'm thinking that this AI could be technology and it could also, you know, steer me through this digital world and protect me.

Jared:

It can, Matt.

Matt:

It's here. Trust me. I don't know if the AIs are, don't. They don't know me.

Jared:

Well, you're not engaging with them enough.

Brad:

Yeah, but what you're saying though, what you're saying though too is like, I want to be protected from this thing. So let me hand over the keys to the thing.

Matt:

That's right. I don't think there's any other choice.

Jared:

I think you're right, though.

Brad:

There's another choice.

Jared:

Like it is. There's going to be like, damage and people are figuring that out. But I don't think it's the Wild west anymore.

Matt:

Once I think once AI is turned on and is coming after me, the only thing that's going to protect me from it is more of it.

Brad:

Yeah. So you just want to be a simp. You're just going to simp up to big AI.

Matt:

Okay, 100%. I think AI would be so much better. I need all the help I get.

Jared:

So it's not the Wild west anymore. Because I think that like all social media now, it's like it is being skewed, like right wing.

Brad:

Not all of it. Well, you haven't been on Blue Sky.

Jared:

Yeah. Let me tell you, except for Blue Sky.

Right, Because I mean, right now, like there has been like a shift, honestly, like, you know, the last month, but.

Brad:

That'S because six guys own it and.

Jared:

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Right so it's not the wild west anymore where there was like, here's a bunch of apps and there's like a whole bunch of different, you know, social media platforms to engage with.

Like, it's becoming like a like monoculture of these large tech companies that control it and control the algorithms and can push you information and control the information.

And then you also have like, Matt, if you want AI to engage with all the time, like Facebook just launched all of these AI bots into Facebook and into Met, or like into Facebook and Instagram. Right. And they're just AI accounts and they're there for people to engage with.

Because what like their, like, I guess bet is that, you know, if you flood it with all these AIs, they're going to engage with Average Joe's social media and be like, nice post, like your post. And then people get that dopamine hit that they're not. They're going to be able to get like, where their post got 30 likes.

Now it's going to get 300 likes from all these AI bots. And these AI bots will just reinforce what you're posting.

Brad:

Right, so you're saying that Facebook and like purposefully meta has like.

Jared:

Yeah, they did. They peeled it back because there was a bit of backlash against it. This is confirmed 100 has happened like two weeks ago.

Matt:

It's on Instagram.

So I have to tell you, if you go to the dust collectors Instagram and you go through the comments, you go through the comments, I would say on each one of the comment sections, there's at least two bots. And they're so obvious. There's, hey, this is amazing. I love it. Have you thought about this marketing, Blah, blah, blah.

Jared:

Right. So, yeah, so those are like marketing bots.

But now, like the, the social media platform itself has its own, like, highly trained AI bots to engage with your content.

Brad:

They're not going to obviously trying to sell you something.

Jared:

They're just going to try. They're just there to you. Yeah, like, wait a minute, now we're back.

Matt:

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Brad:

Yeah, now we're back to the her scenario where Matt has that angry Italian man whispering in his ear. He's loyal, though. Yeah, of course, of course.

Jared:

So, like, it's not, it's not the Wild west anymore. It's becoming like a highly controlled and manipulated system.

Brad:

I think that's a good point, actually, in that it's like, yeah, the illusion of even just that, that, that, you know, something that like Ian Elon Musk will Say of like, oh, it's a free speech. Like, let all the ideas. The free marketplace of ideas. I feel like that is an illusion like this for sure.

Like somebody's always got their hands on the screen.

Jared:

A strip club in Vancouver's Twitter account because they have, like a billboard. What's. It's not number five. Forgive me, I can't remember the name of the strip club.

Brad:

I'm surprised. I would have figured you would know.

Jared:

Also, it's not my favorite one. In Vancouver, you have to take an elevator, and I don't care for that. But, yeah, they put funny stuff on there, like, billboard all the time.

And they put something about, you know, the U.S. buying Canada. It was against that. And they got their fucking account blocked.

Brad:

This is a strip club. I mean, again, it's like we've seen, you know, there's all those stories too, about, like, Musk, like, saying, oh, it's a free speech.

And then he bans the guys that talk shit on him, you know, like. So there's that. But I think even in like a. Like a. Like a. Just. Just a bigger, you know, sort of meta scale, it's.

It's all being skewed in some way, you know, like, it's not this. Even. Even if it wasn't a guy like Elon Musk at the top, you know, like, there's going to be some bias.

There's going to be like, the algorithm is going to be trained in a way. Like, it's just. It's not this free thing that we think it is, but we all kind. There's. I feel like that that illusion still persists.

You know what I mean?

Matt:

Yeah.

Jared:

And I. Yeah. I don't know. Like, have you heard about Dead Internet theory?

Matt:

What's that?

Jared:

Like this. It came out like.

Like people started talking about it maybe like five, six years ago, something like that, where, like, as bots came out and it's just become more and more evident, like you're talking about that. It's just. It's like something like 60% Internet could just be bots interacting with each other.

Brad:

Yeah.

Jared:

And interacting with people. Right. And a lot of these. This engagement you think you're having is not happening.

Brad:

Yeah. And.

Jared:

And Right.

And it's slowly just going to become that, like the Internet we know now in social media is going to be like, completely different in probably like five years. And it's just going to be like a useless hunk of garbage, which might.

Brad:

Actually be a good thing. Like, do you think people would. But it would be People would disengage or.

Matt:

No, I think it would just be replaced with something else.

Brad:

People are, I mean, so like, follow me on.

Jared:

So when TikTok. TikTok got banned in the U.S. right? For 24 hours, half a minute.

Brad:

Yeah.

Jared:

Right. But it pushed people over to this.

Another like people started leaving Tick Tock to go to a full on Chinese government app that is like Tick Tock, it's called Red Note or like she's out.

Brad:

They're just over there like 100.

Jared:

And then all these people on Tick Tock are interacting with all these people in China and they're like, wait, China looks actually kind of sick right now. Like comparatively like people like showing their apartments. Like, I pay like 500 bucks a month for this. I don't, you know, I own a house.

I didn't need a credit check and all this sort of stuff. And like. And so it kind of.

Brad:

You don't need a credit check because they.

Jared:

You have a social credit score also. People did it. And that's the other thing. And then so there was like the inverse of people. Like China actually rules.

It's like, well, no, you're not getting any of the bad parts about China from this app because it is a government controlled app.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jared:

Right. But it was just interesting because people, yeah, people instantly left that and out of spite for the government, like, well, you.

I will go download the most Chinese app available.

Matt:

The people's app.

Jared:

The People's App. GGPing on top CCP for 100 years.

Matt:

Yeah.

Brad:

It is weird though because it's like, I don't know, it does. When it first came out, you know, Twitter, blah, blah, all this, the public square, the new public square. Like I get all that.

Jared:

Like Twitter when it came out was like just people being. It was like Ashton Kutcher being like eating an Asian salad with crispy wontons.

Brad:

But Twitter became like really like, in terms of what I understand. Yeah, that kind of stuff and like journalism stuff. And actually that's even the, the, you know, the, the last main use of that.

Jared:

That was the last time I used. It was around that time when I was like, oh, this is like the quickest way to get news. Like you can get news updates like as it's happening. Like.

And I think, yeah, Arab Spring, it became their like number one way to communicate. Right. Because they shut down all of their modes of communication.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me it was Ukraine war. Like I, I got a great list of journalists and people reporting on that and I followed it on, on X.

And it's like that was, you know, and that's basically all I use it for now is that and you know, a couple other things.

But yeah, so I think it was like it made sense at the time, but this idea, like now it feels like it's like people are so invested in it, you know, like, it's like I almost feel like, you know, the, the visceral reaction like you were talking about where it's like, you're gonna shut down my app.

Well, I'm gonna add a spot, you know, like it's like there's some kind of like, I don't know, it feels way more important than it should for what it is. And maybe it is again, like we're using it in different ways because I agree with you, Matt.

Like what you said at the beginning, where it's like, like it's a giggle, it's a laugh. Like that's, that's Instagram. Like, I don't post on it.

I try and make posts for the podcast, but I'm terrible at, you know, doing that kind of marketing. Whatever.

Matt:

But it's intentionally, I just look at it, you know, I intentionally made it a giggle fest. Like I, I. When I was younger, I used to think that I had to watch all the news because it was my. At the very least, I needed to.

Jared:

Your duty.

Matt:

I needed to be a witness.

Jared:

Yeah.

Matt:

And now after the world's gotten so dark and stuff, I can't. I have to really limit how much I, I expose myself to because it' you know, it's pretty dark out there.

So I actively try to keep my Instagram, like very light hearted and.

Brad:

But do you feel like.

Matt:

And I'm doing it for you guys. I'm doing it for you guys. You need to understand, like, I'm mining Instagram to give you the sweetest, funniest things I can find.

Like, I feel like I'm putting in work for the people that are closest to me.

Brad:

I do feel that way too, where I'm just like, oh yeah, the boys are gonna like this one.

Matt:

Yeah. I'm giving you a little present.

Brad:

I find a good one.

Jared:

And I think, I think that is like when I think about like, like when I used to like real social.

Brad:

Aspect to our, our Instagram group is.

Jared:

Like when I used to like Instagram.

Brad:

There'S some stuff that's too hot for the instant for, for all.

Jared:

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Brad:

Yeah.

Jared:

But like Instagram was the best. Like, I think when it was just Photos.

Brad:

Yeah.

Jared:

And I was like, oh, I like to see my friends photos. Like, that was nice. That seemed way less gnarly.

Brad:

Yeah, it's definitely more gnarly.

Jared:

Yeah.

Brad:

But do you see what I'm saying? Where it's like, there does feel like there's like this. Like some people are, like, so tied to it.

And I get that some people are financially tied to it. Like, it's there, you know, but that's a very few. Like, I feel like the.

The 1, like 99 of all the money being made on social media is being made by 1% of the users. I think I have no data on that. That's just my speculation, my feeling.

Jared:

But even that, like, it's tough because.

Brad:

Like, there still seems like a visceral reaction to people. Like, don't take away my TikTok.

Matt:

Well, it's like giving a whole bunch of people, taking it away from them. You can't do that. It drives them nuts.

Jared:

Like, I do social media marketing, so I have to be like, on it. It's. It is like, yeah, for like. And it's not like Brad. Like, it's not just people who are like, content creators, like, a lot of people. Right.

Like, me and Anna, like, run like, a couple of accounts for companies. And so you have to be.

Brad:

Yeah. On there.

Jared:

On there. And then you have to look at other to, like, be whatever, see what people are doing and steal their ideas, which is, you know, the easy way to do it.

GPT, you know, cook up some captions for you. But so, yeah, like, it's tough to unplug, I guess, is what I'm saying. I just end up back on.

Matt:

Is that all these things have eliminated people's ability to just sit and be bored.

Like, you'll never see somebody sitting in a waiting room or anywhere without, you know, staring right at their phones or back in the day, you know, like, the doctor's office used to have magazines to flip through. No need for those anymore.

Jared:

No.

Matt:

You know, yeah.

Brad:

Yeah. And even sometimes those magazines, you would look at them and be like, I'm not interested in any of this. I'd rather just stare at the wall.

Matt:

Well, after Covet, I look at those magazines and like, you dirty, dirty magazines. Who's gonna touch that? Especially in a doctor's office. No way. Get out of here.

Jared:

No. I used to be so good at doing nothing. Like, I could, you know, just sit and stare off into space.

Like, I remember, like, when I was traveling, I was 18. It's like, oh, I have nothing to do for like a full, you know, six hours.

Brad:

Well, you read a book.

Jared:

Yeah, I'll read a book, roll smokes and, like, that'll eat up a lot of time. And, like, that'll be the day. Like. And now it's like, I would just be on my phone, dude.

Brad:

I notice it. I notice it the most when I find myself when I'm with my kids and I'm on my phone and then I'm like, what am I doing here?

Like, yeah, this is, you know, what am I. To be in my defense, sometimes my kids are doing very boring stuff. Sure. Of course not.

Jared:

I understand not engaging content.

Brad:

Come on. It's not engaging content.

Jared:

What you should do. You need to become a blogger. That's a totally healthy thing to do to your kids. And I don't think there'll be any repercussions in the future.

Just vlog everything your family's doing. Brad. Make a little bit of money.

Brad:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. Make. Make a tiny bit of money or get a. That extra dopamine hit from.

Jared:

Yeah.

Brad:

Oh, we're sponsored by. You know this diapers. Use these diaper. We love these diapers. It's so brutal, man. Parent. Parent Internet sphere.

Jared:

That's just child abuse. Bad. It's brutal. It's the worst.

Brad:

It's so awful. It's a tough one in that sense that it's like one. Yeah. Like the exploitation of.

Of your kids and like, just putting your kids out there and actually even like, understanding now, like, the image captures stuff that's going on.

Jared:

Your kids aren't consenting to that. Like, it's up.

Brad:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jared:

Like, go get a job, you lazy sack of.

Brad:

There's that and then it's just like. There's so much like. Yeah. Just. You don't need, you know, just products. You don't need things you don't need that they're trying to. But that's just.

That's like.

Jared:

But you know what I mean?

Brad:

Base level gripe of social media.

Jared:

You talk about, like, how useful that the advertising is. I've never bought black rightful coffee. The coffee made by Marines. And it is on a lot of podcasts. I don't know if you've come across that.

Brad:

Have you guys seen, I assume, black rifle got Jerry.

Jared:

I am not a black rifle. If anyone knows how to make good coffee, it's Navy seals.

Brad:

Yeah.

Matt:

Ashley and I were talking about mud water. It keeps coming up on all over the place.

Jared:

I have seen.

Matt:

I've seen the mud mushroom tea, but we were chatting about It. And I have, like, it comes up all the time. It's like my most seen ad.

And I was wondering, like, how much could a coffee company or whatever, they're selling Mud water, How much money did that cost them to get their. Their ads just plastered? Like, would it be money? Millions of dollars?

Jared:

Yeah. Yeah. Mud water, they're definitely that. That's like a crate. Yeah. They're spending millions of dollars to have to have, like, scroll ads placed.

Brad:

Yeah. It's big money for that. For. For that ad space to get those many eyeballs.

Jared:

It's coming. Yeah. But, like, that's. Once again, like, that's all social media is. Right. Like, it's just. It's a way to sell people, you know?

Brad:

Yeah. And anything that's. Anything that's the business is keeping your eyeballs there is like. Yeah, it's just. It's trying to sell you something.

It's eventually. That's what the. I mean.

Jared:

I mean, that's what it all is. Even, like, LinkedIn where, like, they've done this great scam on people. Like, oh, this is how you connect, is how you get a job.

It's like, no, they're harvesting your data and selling it.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah, like, to people.

Jared:

Like, that's what I do. Like, I get people like, oh, how'd you get all this information about this?

Oh, like, I have a data scraper and it scraped your LinkedIn and like, now I have your cell phone number. And, like, who cares?

Matt:

Not me. I just. Who cares?

Brad:

I got a mention the other day on Instagram.

Matt:

It's amazing. There's a little rolling. It's called tumbler. Sharpened all my kitchen knives.

I just bought a cat toy that acts like a wounded animal, and it's in the mail. Coming. This is. This is fantastic.

Brad:

I love the. This. Okay. This is interesting, though, because it does show the kind of. The duality of it. Right. And because we. There is a.

We all rightfully talk on social media, but I think there is. There is a benefit to it. I don't know that it's exactly what you're saying, Matt, where it's like, commercial.

Like, now I just get all the, you know, that I need. You know, it's just boom, right there. I get that that's a benefit for you, but I don't know if that's a benefit. Is it huge?

Is it huge having a cat toy that, like, Is that huge? That is huge.

Jared:

Brad, don't minimalize this.

Matt:

This is the fact that I can open a magic.

This little thing that I keep in my pocket is this magic box that has all the information I'd ever need about every single thing I'd ever want to learn about. And it shows me all these fancy things that I can just buy and have probably within 24 hours or 48 hours.

Jared:

Matt, once again, you are. Yeah, Brad, you're talking to a guy here who uses his $2,000 MacBook as an extra battery bank for his vape.

Matt:

That's not true.

Jared:

I've seen you do it, walking around with your vape plugged into your MacBook.

Matt:

I quit that.

Jared:

Is this the first time you've used your MacBook for other than nicotine?

Matt:

I used to. I used to download my smokes off the Internet, but I don't do that anymore.

Jared:

I'm just saying, you are, you know, you're a real. You're a real pigeon out there in the world, susceptible to marketing. And.

Brad:

He'S not wrong, though. He's not wrong. I'll give him this. He's not wrong. Like, I do get. And when you were talking about, like, AI organizing your life and like, this, like.

Like, I get that. Like, like, that's what I'm saying is, like, there is.

There is some kind of benefit to it, but it's like, there is a balance, obviously, that needs to be struck. And I think that, like, people are beginning to have that conversation about it. But is it. Is it too far down?

Like, what are the next generations going to be? All that kind of stuff. These are all the interesting questions. And I, you know. Yeah. I just don't.

Matt:

New generations will change with their attitudes. Like, if you look at Facebook, it's like basically the raisin bin for all cold farts.

Brad:

Yeah.

Jared:

No one. It's just, once again, like. Yeah, it's just a bunch of weird.

Matt:

Social media AI photos of Jesus. Maybe the millennials version of that. And then maybe the. The new kids.

Like, maybe there's a generation of kids that are growing up watching their parents glued to their screens, and they're gonna say when they get to their teenage years, that's not cool. I don't want to do that.

Jared:

But most likely those parents have given their kids iPads and they have, like, full rain access to social media.

Brad:

Yeah.

Jared:

Maybe, you know, their dopamine centers are already burnt the fuck out. Out.

Brad:

I think it's different. I think. I don't know. Yeah, I wonder. Because. So let's say, you know, let's make a.

Let's make a comparison or analogy or whatever and say that it's like, okay. So if you grew up in a house where, yeah. Your parents were partying all the time, they were smoking cigarettes, they were drinking or something.

You, you see that behavior?

Matt:

Pretty cool parents.

Jared:

Yeah, those are cool ass parents, dude.

Brad:

Totally. That's what my kids are gonna. Those are. My kids are gonna get.

No, but you know, the argument would be like, okay, you see the negative side of that, but maybe you, you go the other way.

Jared:

Sure.

Brad:

But I feel like. And I don't know unless your parents.

Jared:

Let you do like bumps of coke while they were partying and you will grow up to be a cokehead as.

Brad:

Long as they're doing it in my house.

Jared:

Yeah.

Brad:

Under my. But, but you know what I mean? Like, I feel like that's more like you'll see the negative effects more acutely.

Whereas like social media use, it's like you're, it's, it's not going to be as obvious. And it's easier for a parent to give their kid a tablet like you say, or a phone like you say than it is to give them a cigarette.

Like no parent's going to give their kid a cigarette, but they'll give them a phone. You know, except for the French. Yeah. Well, yeah, of course the French will.

Jared:

Give their kids cigarettes. Just. But lights only.

Brad:

Yeah. And empathy. Put the vein. It's not. I mean, yeah. Yes.

Jared:

You have another way for the child to relax. I'd like to hear it.

Brad:

Yes.

Matt:

She's a teacher and she talks about seeing the effects of. What do they call iPad kids or whatever they are. I think there's a name for them.

Brad:

Autistic.

Matt:

Well, that's. They're, they're, they're actually behaving with like autistic, like anti social things.

But they're not, they're just completely unsocialized because they're, they've been basically from the time they were a baby to the early years of school, they just glued to a screen.

And if you've ever watched the kids programming that, like if the algorithm thinks you're a child and what it throws at you, it is mind numbingly stupid. It's freaky. Like I thought, tell you, I don't.

Brad:

Know what that says about me because.

Jared:

I got fed some Bluey videos and it really got me hooked.

Brad:

So Bluey's one of the good ones. Bluey's one of the good ones. Ones. I found some interesting.

We, we toned back our son's YouTube watching because at first I was like, oh, there's a YouTube Kids profile that'll be Cool. That he can get some cool stuff. And then there was like. I did notice that he was, like, agitated.

You know, when we turned off YouTube, he would like it upset. Like it was like. And more upset than other things. And it was like.

And there was videos where it was just like it was a guy, you know, just somebody with toys just driving like a toy train set, for example, and just driving them around and then just like crashing them or something.

Matt:

Oh, yeah.

Brad:

It was like something that was just so like, we like. I get why a kid would like it. I guess the crashes were cool. Yeah, I was like, oh, he crashed it. But yeah, there was a guy that.

Matt:

Was doing the kinder egg opening reveals. And if you look at his. His streams, it's like in the billions. And all he does is open up kinder surprise eggs and he doesn't even talk.

It's just his hands opening the egg. And the streams on it is just.

Jared:

He's making $10 million a year opening eggs.

Matt:

It's crazy. And then remember, Jared, you and I were talking about stupid ideas to make kids watch things on the Internet, and we were just throwing it.

We were just throwing ideas out there.

Brad:

And every single. We do be hustling.

Jared:

Listen, I above. You know.

Matt:

That's right.

Jared:

I'll criticize it, but if there's a buck to be made, I will, you know.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah, I'm in. I'm in.

Matt:

Well, I had. I was trying to think of these ideas and I was like, what are kids. What are stupid kids gonna like to watch?

And I was like, well, what if we bought some candies and melted them?

Jared:

Oh, I do remember this.

Matt:

Has anybody done this? I went. I went and YouTubed it. YouTube it right now you'll see that there's millions of views of guys melting candy.

Brad:

Melting candy.

Matt:

Melting candy. So it's already been done.

Jared:

God damn it.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah. Fresh idea people. There's people milking all this stuff.

There's a guy that did this, a similar thing with Spotify, and he just like any combination of, like, dumb words that you could think of or names that you could think of, he made a stupid song about it. So it's like the Matte Fart song or the Matt's a Poopy Head song. I've heard that he just. He.

And he's made just dumb songs, minute long songs out of all the things you can think of. Of. And they get, you know, people type it in and then they get, you know, you get. You get hits and you get that.

But yeah, I don't know, thinking about the good thing about it, like, I do think that some of the, the AI stuff, I wonder if it's blown out of proportion the, you know, in.

Matt:

Terms of dangers of it.

Brad:

Not the dangers, but like the, the power of the, like something like Chat GPT, which is these large, what do they call it, language models or something like that because it's, it's, it's based on probability and not, you know, intuition, not like actual thinking. You know what I mean?

Jared:

Yeah.

Brad:

I feel like that is kind of a smokescreen for actual artificial intelligence. It's not really artificial intelligence and that, like, that's not going to be as big of a danger.

But what really gets me is the, is the, the social media stuff and just the algorithms controlling what you see and the fact that those algorithms are then controlled by like a handful of people. I feel like that information flow is more of a.

Having someone have their, you know, hand on the throttle of the information feels more dangerous to me for sure.

Matt:

Yeah, I think that's terrifying. I think especially because I think we can be gamed so easily. I don't think we're as smart as we think we are.

And once, you know, I don't know how easily brainwashable I am and I like to think I'm not that brainwashable, but I am, totally.

Brad:

We all do. We all like to think.

Matt:

And especially if you have like an AI or something that's playing a long game on how you think and how you formulate your ideas about the world or your opinions about things, if you have, you know, just the subtle conditioning that these things would potentially be able to do. That's kind of a freaky thing to think about. Especially because the people that are in control of these things are not elected by anyone.

They're just these. Well, so far they seem to be just a bunch of bro douchebags.

Brad:

Yeah.

Matt:

And so it's kind of alarming, but.

Jared:

Behind the concentration of all this, like, you know, going back to, you know, meta and the TikTok ban. Right, right. Where. So TikTok is now being hosted in a meta server.

Brad:

So the data is all in there. Servers.

Jared:

Yes, the data. So like they sold like the data, the data center. They don't, they haven't sold the algorithm. Right.

Brad:

And the algorithm is the big piece that China doesn't want out. Yeah.

Jared:

Or it's. Yeah. Like it's not even a Chinese, fully Chinese company. Right. Like it's owned 60% by international investment.

Brad:

Right. But I heard that the algorithm was what they're like, that's the hot.

If they were going to get sold to it, like if the US made them sell to another US company, the algorithm wouldn't go with it. It would just be the brand and stuff.

Jared:

But like, but you know, senators and politicians on both sides of the aisle all bought metastock before the ban, right? Not so much they thought.

Because I feel like they knew that, yeah, there's going to be this like short ban and then the deal was they're going to move the server or the data storage into Meta and that's going to bump up their stock.

Brad:

Yeah.

Jared:

Right. So it's, it's not even. So it's like, you know, it's not just corporations. Like it is the government. Not to be a conspiracy theorist. Right.

Matt:

But did you see that there's like.

Jared:

To add to think the government. Anything's going to regulate it, I think is foolish.

Matt:

Do you see that there's a. I think it's an app. I think it's an app. It's called like politic or something like that.

Jared:

Unusual Whales or.

Matt:

Yeah, it basically it tracks senators, investments.

Brad:

Unusual. Wales was not. I didn't think it would be a political app.

Jared:

Well, the first one was a guy's. The guy who's like the politicker came from a guy's blog called Unusual Whales where yeah, he would just post every like politician's.

Matt:

Stock purpose stock buyers buying or selling.

And then now it's set up that you can basically input how much that you're willing to trade or buy or sell and it'll just automatically do it for you basically if Pelosi sells something or buys something.

Jared:

Nancy Pelosi, one of the greatest stock traders of all time. Yeah, she's up like 200. She's over. She's up like, I think like 90 this year.

Matt:

It's perfect. It's amazing.

Brad:

I'm rubbing my temples because it's just. It's so nothing.

Jared:

And so this is what I'm saying. When I digest like this all day, it like riles me up and then I just do like a, like a demonic info dump on Anna and then walk away.

I'm like, oh, I feel better.

Matt:

She's like, drop.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah. She's like, what?

Jared:

Please stop doing this.

Brad:

I definitely, I definitely do that to my significant other as well where it's just like. She'll even say something just like. And it just. Well, yeah. Did you know that actually? And then it all comes out.

Jared:

Yeah, yeah.

Matt:

Ashley does this terrible thing to me when I'm on about something. She sticks her hands up in the air about, you know, a meter, a meter apart and she slowly starts bringing her hands together.

And that's to let me know that that's the window of time I have to get everything out.

Brad:

Hold on.

Jared:

The thing is, which you don't understand actually and what it's gonna do, I think the ramifications long term are gonna.

Matt:

Be like.

Brad:

One more thing.

Matt:

It's a power move.

Brad:

That's such a good move.

Jared:

Damn.

Matt:

It takes the wind out of your sails. It'll take you right out.

Jared:

Clever girl.

Brad:

As soon, as soon as someone puts the clock on you.

Jared:

Yeah, just put clock, a shot clock on your God damn.

Matt:

I know the nightmare.

Brad:

But this is so. I was gonna, like I was going to. Before you said that, Jared, I was gonna say like. Well, I think the problem here is, is a regulation problem.

You know, like there's got to be like a regulation problem.

Jared:

But if, you know, if the government say, if people in the government's, you know, lively or like they can make a fuckload of money.

Brad:

Yeah.

Jared:

By like not enforcing any sort of regulation. Like it's.

Matt:

The other thing to think about too is like we're so far we're seeing a lot of things that are just seem, you know, like we're getting it wrong. Like things are getting worse, depression's going up.

People are getting addicted to these things because they're getting their dopamine fixes at some point along the line.

Brad:

This is true.

Matt:

Some country, some country or group of people is going to come up with a better system that.

And I don't know exactly what they're going to do or what that's going to look like, but they're going to do something differently and we can potentially be able to follow. Follow the lead. Like I don't think this is going to be a, this isn't going to be a descent forever all the way down the toilet.

I don't know where this is going. And it's good. I think it's going to get worse before it gets better.

But at some point along the line I'm hopeful that we're going to see some positive changes or new ways to interact or I think we're going to.

Jared:

Need one hit solar storm to wipe out all the power grids and then everyone can not be on their phones.

Matt:

Maybe that'll happen too. Like Ashley and I, when we go camping. It's amazing. Well, when we. Our phones are just no service. You do notice the difference pretty quickly.

Especially if you're out there for a few days, you know, you get a.

Brad:

Longer shot clock or no.

Matt:

Oh yeah, she's bored. She's bored. She can't just look at her phone.

Jared:

Yeah, she has to listen to it. She has no conflict.

Matt:

I'll pace back and forth by that fire and she's just looking at me in awe, captivated by the depth of.

Brad:

My knowledge of audience. Captive audience.

Jared:

I bring out a bunch of cute cards and I emulate TikTok posts. I draw things and then I go from one to the other and it's an analog TikTok that I've developed.

Matt:

I like to describe to Ashley metal detecting videos and what they found and how deep down they were.

Jared:

Matt, we don't need to get into your guys sex life. I don't need to hear about your dirty talk.

Matt:

Don't get me started on mudlarking then.

Brad:

Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I, I, I think I am optimistic as well. Like, I mean I think it's just my nature.

I'm, I'm optimistic but, and I think that like, you know, the fact that like we're having the conversation like people are having these conversations in higher up places, you know, the fact that it's on our radar obviously means that other people are, are thinking about it. You know what I mean?

Jared:

But I don't think the people having the conversations higher up have anyone's, you know, greater good in mind.

Brad:

No, no, no, I think it's like. No, I think, yeah, that was one thing I was going to say is like if, if government's not going to do it, how do you do it?

Like you have to, you have to get. But it's the same thing with, with smoking, right?

Like it's the same like the governments weren't, the governments were fine to, to keep smoking around. Right.

Matt:

Doctors smoke Camel cigarettes.

Jared:

I guess that's right.

I guess like if it does become really detrimental to society, like and I don't know if this is true but I'm assuming like one of the big reasons for banning smoking is that it was causing mass amounts of money to the health system, right?

Brad:

Yeah.

And I think, I think, I also do think that there was just like you know, concerned people that stood up and you know there, there is people like you know, Facebook whistleblower, you know, there's, there's people that are making content and you know they were used to work for these companies and they, the guy that made that document about Facebook or social media, I can't remember his name, Tristan something, whatever. But Anyway, so there is people like, like, it's, it's coming up, right?

Jared:

Do we need a Mothers Against Social Media, like a mad.

Brad:

Exactly.

Jared:

There's something that's really fun that we don't do anymore. Drunk driving. Yeah.

Brad:

Wait, you don't do that anymore?

Jared:

I mean, I've cut back. Only on weekends.

Brad:

Only on weekends. I delete that.

Jared:

And by delete the app, I mean I had my car taken away way.

Brad:

So. But yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I. And maybe that's it. Like, maybe it is that sort of groundswell thing and like.

And you see how long it takes for things to actually change because, like, smoking is still a thing, right? Like, it's still a. Something that society and the public health agencies are fighting against. It's obviously.

Jared:

But now I have nicotine pouches instead of smoking.

Matt:

Right. So it's enjoying as well, costing us money in the health departments, but it's also causing us to chill out and just mean it.

Jared:

So, so maybe that's. So, I mean, like, yeah, I'm, I'm big on the, the nicotine pouches, right. So I've gotten rid of. I've gotten rid of the harmful part of.

Brad:

Right.

Jared:

Of tobacco, but I'm still getting the benefits of it, which is.

Matt:

And I want. That's ever been done has been done under the influence of nicotine.

I bet if you were to go through the history books and you look at all of the great things mankind has come up with, I would, I would.

Jared:

Stephen King was big on smoking, nicotine smoking.

Matt:

They're. They're a big. They've helped us get to where we've got.

Brad:

Agree if you want to, if you want a really interesting.

Jared:

I'm a nicotine maximalist for sure.

Brad:

Let me, let me give you this one and before we start winding it down here. But yeah. Michael Pollan, author, wrote a book, this is your mind on Plants, I think it's called.

Matt:

Okay.

Brad:

And the chapter. There's a, There's a section. It's like three sections. Opium, caffeine and mescaline, I think.

But the caffeine one was fascinating for just this exact, this exact thing. And it makes sense, but you think, you realize that it's like we're all addicted to caffeine 100%. Most of the society is addicted to caffeine.

And the point at where caffeine was introduced, the change in culture. Culture was. It was like around the Renaissance, you know, in, in Europe and the Arab countries were using it before then.

And like, is a really interesting. Yeah. Again, you think about information and the things that like, influence our information and where our knowledge and all this stuff comes from.

There's all these layers to it, and something as simple as caffeine or nicotine is one of them. The thing that I wanted to end on. Well, I guess we'll end on it because we're getting near the end. But we talked about like, irritability and stuff.

And like, yeah, okay, maybe that's not. Maybe we're not feeling that. Exactly.

Matt:

Get to your point, Brad.

Brad:

But I think there is something to be.

Jared:

Matt, start pushing your hands together. Give him the window.

Brad:

So classic, but so good. Don't do the wind. Yeah, I was like, there has to be. There has to be something maybe even subliminal. We were talking about the violence.

Let's just, let's just look at the violence that you see on social media. Like that has to do something to. That has to do something to you.

And we've had the text conversations where it's just like, I've never seen, you know, like something that someone would only see in war. You know, like 30, 40 people dying. It's like I just saw a building blow up with probably 100 people.

Jared:

I watched a video on Reddit of hand to hand combat at. In Ukraine. These two guys have a knife. It was one of the most terrifying things I've ever seen.

Matt:

Yeah, but mankind's always done this. Like the Coliseum ran a solid business for 500 years of two shows a week, people just getting hacked to death. Bloodsport.

Look, look at the Dana White.

Jared:

Look what happened to Rome. What are you talking about?

Matt:

Well, I'm just saying, every single culture, we have a bloodlust. I don't know what it is, but people have always been fascinated by all the. Of violence.

Brad:

It's true. Yeah, actually, it's true. You're not wrong. And like Dan Carlin did an episode about pain. Painfultainment. Yeah, that is true.

You know that, like, it's not that unheard of, but again, to think of it in terms of the, the way that the information is being delivered, where it's like these bits of it and it's just constant, you know, whereas, oh, the streams. I find sometimes you had to go to a Coliseum and it was the big event and it was. And this, it was this thing. There's all this stuff around now.

Jared:

You could watch it on your couch. You can watch the Coliseum in your underwear again.

Brad:

I think about it when I'm with my kids. You know, my kids are watching TV or something and I'm sitting there looking at my phone. I'm just like, the stuff that I'm seeing.

Jared:

Yeah.

Brad:

You know, on my couch where my children are right there. It's like there's this juxtaposition sometimes that I'm just like, whoa.

Matt:

So, you know, on the. Your Instagram and when you go to. What is it? This With a. You know what, it shows you all of the stuff at the same time.

Brad:

Yeah, the for you page.

Matt:

The for you page, where it's just all stuff like that, and, you know, you can click on one and then you can just. And it'll show you a video and then you just flip up and it's another video. Like, you don't know what you're.

You don't know what next video you're gonna get. So I don't do that. I burst out laughing at the day because I really like these, like, cat videos. Cats doing funny things.

Jared:

Of course.

Matt:

That's what I mind. That's what I mine for Ashley. I'm always trying to give her.

I try to give you guys the, the gayest stuff I can find or the, or whatever, but Ashley is really.

Jared:

Interesting in the classic term.

Matt:

Yeah.

Jared:

You know what?

Matt:

I'm mining these gems out of here when I was flipping through and it was like, cat video, cat video, cat video. Ukrainian getting killed with a drone. Another cute cat video. Cat video. How they sandwich it in there. It's like, wow. It's just really.

It made me laugh. I was like, that is so weird. I'm watching cute kittens and then all of a sudden I see somebody get blown up with a drone because it.

Jared:

Knows what you really want. And who did that? Yeah, the algo, baby.

Matt:

The algo. And that's why I need Silvio in my ear, fighting those little things away.

You know, I want, I want my AI integrated into all of my systems, and I want him protecting me and guiding me through and just giving me the stuff I need. Mud larking and metal detecting and cats. Gay stuff for you guys.

Brad:

There's something to be said about I, I, yeah, the, you know, leaning into it as the solution. I, I do get that.

I don't know that I'm totally sold on that because there is this, this, this idea of like, yeah, yeah, you know, you're giving up too much free will, but I think we're already probably beyond that anyway. And I think it's this. With any technology, you could look at this. People probably had these discussions back in the day, but, well, people just had.

Jared:

The discussions about, like, Cable television during fucking, like, during Jerry Springer days. Everyone was like, well, this is the end of society. Society has clearly gone to shit.

Matt:

People are losing their minds about novels. People, the young kids reading books all the time, they're poisoning their brains.

Brad:

When the.

Matt:

When the novel form came out of.

Brad:

Books, you were freaking out and reading the Bible.

Matt:

Times changed. Things are weird.

Brad:

Yeah, but so let's. Well, then just quickly to end and optimistic. I'm putting my hand up for optimistic, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

Matt's got his hand up for optimistic.

Matt:

Absolutely.

Jared:

I'm out.

Brad:

We're gonna be fine.

Matt:

Everything's fine. Everything's fine.

Brad:

Jared's out. Everything's fine.

Matt:

Nothing's here.

Brad:

I mean, that's a good ending. That's a good ending. Leave it there. Leave it there.

Jared:

Well.

Brad:

Many thanks to the boys for joining me for this conversation. I really enjoyed it. I hope you did, too. Maybe it inspires you to purge your feed. Purge your social media feed. Get a clean slate.

Get rid of all that garbage out there. And remember, you got to continually tend that garden.

Otherwise, those six shady figures that run all the social media are going to try and inception your algorithm. Not to mention all the stuff that your friends send you, accepting your algorithm. Algorithm. Thank you for being here.

Please rate, subscribe, review all of those great things. Help out the show. We want to hear from you. Leave us a comment on YouTube, wherever you're getting this.

We would love to hear about your social media use, what you thought about this episode and what you would like to hear next. Have a good one, everyone. We'll see you next time. Bye for.

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About the Podcast

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Two Brad For You
A science show for the people

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About your host

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Bradley van Paridon

Brad was a scientist. He did a Ph.D studying mind controlling parasitic worms. Now he writes for magazines, produces podcasts and teaches scientists how to better communicate their work. His philosophy is that the science community can lighten up and speak like the normal people they are. Everyone can and should understand the knowledge scientists create because it is society's job to decide what to do with that information.

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